Posts by Cold Steel

92

How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

by Mr Fool in

was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

no other way out for the almighty god?.

Cold Steel

You mean the same god that ordered the genocide of people who had the audacity to live on their own land first, which genocide included the slaughter of infants, old people and animals? The same god that not only approved of slavery but codified it? The same god that was just as happy to slaughter his own people as he was in slaughtering "pagan" people?

Shirl, the people living on their own land weren't just folks. They were profligate, degenerate, idolatrous and vicious. Talk about murdering infants, they threw them into a furnace. Their “worship” was almost wholly sexual. In several circumstances, the Lord offered to spare the less wicked people as long as they gave the Israelites safe passage through their lands; however, they feared the Israelites and rejected peace. So in this case, by attacking the Israelites, they brought about their own destruction.

But as the Israelites wandered in the desert, there also was rebellion in their own ranks. Korah, a first cousin of Moses, instigated a rebellion over the priesthood. Being Levites, they held the lesser priesthood, but they coveted the higher priesthood shared by Moses and Aaron. The Lord, through Moses, separated the two camps. The rebels were subsequently consumed in an earthquake, and 250 princes of Israel, who also coveted the priesthood, were killed by fire. Instead of seeing the Lord’s hand in all this, many in the congregation actually blamed Moses and Aaron for this evil. The Lord then sent a plague among the camps and only through an act of atonement were the people spared. But many still were embittered towards Moses and Aaron.

The point here is that by rebelling against Moses, the people thought they were in the right. They were warned repeatedly before the Lord took action against them. They had witnessed Moses’ miracles before Pharaoh and the plagues, as well as the miraculous parting of the Red Sea and the destruction of the Egyptian army. Yet they thought Moses was in the wrong and blamed him for the deaths of the rebels.

When the people were denied the entrance into the land of promise because of their conduct at the base of Mount Sinai, they determined to attack Canaan anyway, despite the Lord’s admonitions against it. The Canaanites soundly trounced them and yet Moses had forewarned them against the attack.

So people frequently disagree with the Lord, even when they believed in His existence. They also thought they were right, even when God showed He was against them. The Lord also had to move the Canaanites out of their lands to give it to the Israelites. Had they been a righteous people, they could have integrated themselves into the Israelite culture, but they had their own cultures and their own forms of fertility worship, which was highly repugnant to the Lord. He did not want it to infect the Israelites because, as the form of worship under Moses was monotheism with an emphasis on making people better through mastering their base desires, Canaanite worship was based in decadent and deviant sexual practices and the murder of infants.

92

How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

by Mr Fool in

was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

no other way out for the almighty god?.

Cold Steel

What if an entity called man invented god? That is the big question. It is actually the answer.

Have you read Asimov’s short story, The Last Question?

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92

How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

by Mr Fool in

was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

no other way out for the almighty god?.

Cold Steel

Could you please define “morality”?

Very well. Morality is the attribute, or quality, of honesty, virtue, honor, loyalty, righteousness and steadfastness that exists in the confines of that which is given us by God. Without the latter, which is not mere sophistry, morality changes. Immoral sexual behavior, abortion and a host of other issues become increasingly debatable. If society is able to craft its own definition of morality, it will inevitably fall under the weight of its own immorality. When Jerusalem fell in 70 A.D., the inhabitants of the city all thought they were good people. As is his wont, God warned the people through the apostles and prophets to tell them otherwise. When they then sought the lives of these apostles, they sealed their own doom. Also, please note that the morals in the present day United States are entirely different than those a hundred years ago. Under God, morality doesn’t change.

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92

How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

by Mr Fool in

was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

no other way out for the almighty god?.

Cold Steel

You see, the preciousness of life is not contingent on belief in any particular god, or any god at all. Atheists are no different than any other human in that regard. In fact, I contend there is little basic difference between you and me other than this one main point: I, as an atheist, simply believe in one less god than you do. That's it.

Understood. But about preciousness, I just want you to understand that the preciousness of life is only advantageous to us only if we get something out of it that will benefit us. If death robs us of a way to use life’s lessons to our advantage, then all is for naught. The preciousness of life can only be of use to us if we can apply it to the next. If we held a course in electrical engineering, administer a final exam, then shoot everyone in the class, what does it matter how well they did?

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92

How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

by Mr Fool in

was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

no other way out for the almighty god?.

Cold Steel

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius

There is a great truth in this. One of the most pronounced observations by people who have near death experiences is that they are never asked which church they were members of. The first question asked is, what have you done for your fellow man? Again, when all men are judged, they are judged on the light they had and how they applied it to their lives. Someone once said that in the life to come, men are their own tormentors. They can deceive others, but not themselves, nor God.

True morality is only possible when you get rid of divine law-givers. You believe in morals by divine fiat. This is why you can blithely dismiss genocide as a mere trifle.

If atheists are correct, then genocide is a monumental trifle. Black holes a thousand light years from here have no opinion one way or the other on genocide. It's only important to those sophomoric little humans who have such a grand opinion of themselves. Worlds come and go out of existence throughout time, but the little pink thing on Planet Earth thinks genocide should shake the foundations of the heavens.

You are a shallow thinker, Cofty. That’s why your posts are so incredibly arrogant and foolish. You pop in, ejaculate your opinion and leave, thinking you have left grand thoughts. I don’t know how old you are, but I hope when you get out of high school, you’ll learn that opinions are best stated when they’re backed up with something substantial.

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9

How I Found Jesus!

by berrygerry in

by looking at cdn court cases.. i knew i would find him if i persisted.. there is clear evidence, in my view, that beginning some time, probably in early 2010, but perhaps earlier, that mr. jones developed a delusional disorder with a primary religious focus.

mr. jones accounting of the development of his belief that he is jesus christ, is consistent with the known development of psychotic disorders.

mr. jones describes a period of time where he felt that he had some greater purpose or was meant for something important although he was unable to really identify what that was.

Cold Steel

They should hold a convention for everyone who believes they are Jesus Christ. Put them up in a swanky hotel and hold roundtable discussions. They could make a fortune selling white robes and halos and there could be various lectures on faith and works, baptism by immersion or sprinkling, the existence of hell. Then at the end they could have an autograph sessions. People could buy New Testaments and have them autographed, have photos taken with their favorite messiah.

At the inauguration of President Reagan, Don Rickles greeted many of the guests, including Billy Graham. After acknowledging him, Rickles said, "This arm is bothering me." It was great. Frank Sinatra refused to perform there unless Rickles also performed. You can see it on YouTube.

BTW, it isn't the people who claim to be Jesus Christ that fascinate me, but the people who are their followers.

92

How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

by Mr Fool in

was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

no other way out for the almighty god?.

Cold Steel

I believe the rationalization was, ‘they would've died someday anyway so what does it matter?’

No. Life is precious; however, it is in the hands of God. Before we came here, we unanimously agreed that we would be under the judgment of God. No one was forced to come to the earth, except those who rebelled, and we knew there would be eternal consequences to our actions once our memories were veiled, but we chose to come here anyway because of benefits and blessings of the Atonement. As Origen noted in his writings, we reach eternal life by various steps or degrees.

Infants who die here receive eternal life by default, due to their innocence. Not being able to sin, they have no need for baptism. They return to God pure. The rest of us die according to His will. But if you’re an atheist, none of that is clear to you. The rationalization you cite was meant as the bottom line argument back at you. If we all go down to an eternal death, I’m simply asking you, what difference does it make when one dies. We all go down into the grave, never to rise again. So, as far as you’re concerned, what difference does it make if you’re an infant or an old man? A billion years from now, we’ll all be dead and in a state of nonexistence (according to atheists). So as far as you’re concerned, Shirl, what difference does it make? If there is no God, there is no right or wrong. There’s no one to set any standards; no one to make laws or administer punishments. The dark side of The Force is as valid as the other. When Hitler, Stalin, Mao and other mass murderers die, they receive the same as the saintliest person who ever lived. So the rationalization was for your benefit. I believe that all men and all animals are immortal, and that their intelligence has no beginning nor does it have an end. A person dies, and they continue on in the spirit. So if God takes an infant, it simply means, to me, that it was spared the hardships and problems of mortality.

…if I was referencing Feguson, I'd certainly know how to spell it.

And if I were calling someone on misspelling Ferguson, I’d make darn sure I knew how to spell it.

But I get the point and you’re right. It was a cheap shot on my part. I apologize.

What you are doing, Cold_Steel, is filling in the Bible story blanks with your own commentary and editorializing...because the accounts written as-is are too indefensible, too disturbing, for any normal, rational person to accept at face value. So, you are forced to make endless excuses for god and justify his actions in order to make it work for you….

Not so much. I’m simply saying that neither you nor I know enough to condemn God. We don’t know what was in His mind. We also don’t know what was in the hearts of the people. We don’t know all the circumstances, nor do we know the context. Is that not so? Wouldn’t you concede that 1) if there is a God; and 2) if He has the attributes the prophets say He has (such as honor, virtue, integrity, omnipotency, all-knowing, all seeing), that He would be the best judge in how to judge all these things? Who are we to set our own standards and then hold God to them? Isn’t that the height of arrogance? Someone has to set the standards. Who better than our Creator? Remember, if He doesn’t exist, then we all get to set our own standards. You may not like the standards someone else sets, but who are you to object to the standards of someone like Richard Kuklinski? He may not agree with your standards, nor would he agree with society’s standards. He would murder anytime he felt he could get away with it!

By the way, you never said whether you were pro-life or not. We live in a society where we murder tens of thousands…millions, even, of infants. Wouldn’t you say that is far more problematic than any of God’s judgments?

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92

How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

by Mr Fool in

was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

no other way out for the almighty god?.

Cold Steel

If "divine puishment" was needed, then that should have been a sobering act...one to ponder on calmly...not reckelessly celebrate with a party atmosphere!

I concur.

92

How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

by Mr Fool in

was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

no other way out for the almighty god?.

Cold Steel

If your ignorance negates your ability to judge god, then how is it adequate to praise him as good?

It is because I have life's experiences that have led me to know what kind of being God is and why He is just and worthy of worship. When Jesus asked Peter, "Who do you say I am?" Peter replied, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Then Jesus said, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

We can know things because God reveals them. It’s like wireless. Peter knew spiritually what he'd learned through the Spirit of God. Other people know because they saw God, spoke to Him and received light and intelligence from Him. There have also been many who have had near death experiences. One neurosurgeon, in writing of his own near death experience, admitted he was an agnostic beforehand. He believed that the brain was what enabled people to think, relate and understand their environments. In defending his experience, he said he knows very well the effects that drugs have on the human body, and that he had intelligent interactive conversations with them. I was sick once and suffered hallucinations. I recall telling my wife that I could see “pumpkins and oranges on the television (which was off).

.................. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZFml7LEn68

So you've never read the Bible account about GOD ordering Abraham to kill his son?

Yes, and it, too, pointed the way to Christ. Abraham’s sacrifice of his only son was to be in similitude of God’s sacrifice of His only Son. He didn’t want Abraham to sacrifice his son, but He wanted Abraham to know the meaning and depth of such a sacrifice. He stopped Abraham’s sacrifice for obvious reasons, but His requiring Abraham to sacrifice His son was a teaching device, and a way to point towards the eternal sacrifice of His own Son. There was nothing psychotic about it.

In my own religion, the story is told in the Book of Mormon where the Lord commands a prophet to slay a man whom the Lord delivered into his hands. (See 1 Nephi 4) He shrinks from doing it, but is told that it is better that one man perish than an entire nation, which was yet to emerge. The story of Nephi and Laban has always been a sore spot for atheists and other critics as just another example of God’s capricious and outrageous acts, but when a group of students from the Middle East took a Book of Mormon course at BYU, the only problem they had with the story is that Nephi hesitated. To them, especially those familiar with the Law of Moses, Nephi had the perfect right to slay Laban. He had taken their property, then commanded his men to kill them. Later, when Nephi found Laban alone, drunk and passed out, he was commanded by the Lord to kill him. But because of the cultural differences between them and many Americans, they had a completely different criticism. Again, as with others, Nephi didn’t destroy Laban; he merely sent him to a “penalty box,” as some have described it. And though his body perished, his spirit returned to God, who gave it. And to this day, he resides with the other spirits who have lived and died on this world.

From my own perspective, how can you find fault with God for the sacrifice when He stopped it? How do you know what was in Abraham’s mind and what lessons he carried away with him due to the experience? Perhaps God revealed to Abraham, as He had others, the life and mission of Christ. How can we pass judgment on someone who is light years ahead of us in intelligence? Especially when we know only a handful of facts? You counter that if we can’t judge God in the mean things He does, how can we judge Him on His righteousness? But we’re not sent here to evaluate God and judge Him. We’re here for Him to evaluate and judge us.

You’re like those protesters in Furgeson, Missouri. They don’t care about facts. They judged Officer Wilson the day he shot that young thug, and nothing’s going to change their minds. Even if he’s innocent (something they’re not even willing to consider), he’s guilty. And so it is with the hard core atheists. They have judged God, and nothing He can say or do, or what those who worship Him say and do, the verdict was in since the beginning and has been pronounced: Guilty of being a vindictive, psychopathic murderer! It's absurd. Eventually, when all the facts are known, every knee will bend and every tongue confess Christ.

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27

Elder Appointments

by MaybeSo in

doing some research as to what qualifications someone needs to meet to become an elder, i came up with one conclusion: it's who you know and is very subjective.. funny thing is too, if you searc the wt online library there are not recent articles that describe and outline the requirements.

which makes me think that there were too many requirements and as we all know, it is based now on how close you are with the current co and not necessarily on being a model jw in the congo.

so the borg decided to leave it up all to the co and not tell the rest what to look for on these appointed men.. you could do your hours, be early to the meetings, be prepared, keep your car and house clean, family in good reputation, etc but if you are in the circle then you can forget it.

Cold Steel

Okay, what is the advantage of being an elder? And how many people in any given congregation want to become one? It's not a paid position and one is not ordained into that office, so is it a power thing? Is it considered gauche to express a desire to become an elder?

Also, if one had more ambition, how could one become a member of the Governing Board? That is a paid position, no one ever asks you for your stats and you get plenty of credibility to the point that people in congregations you visit grovel, fawn and, perhaps best, invite you to dinner. It's good work if you can get it; but how would one go about joining that august assembly?